Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Hi guys.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome once again to the Rajpull podcast. Today I've got a very special guest who's who I've seen on social media. I didn't know that we were actually linked between my cousins, Sookie, which we're going to find out and talk about in a second. So yeah, Gus Campbell or Gussie G. How are you?
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Campbell, AKA myself. Yes.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, how, how you been?
[00:00:37] Speaker A: I've been good man, yeah. Just, just been enjoying the past couple of years now. Kind of had a bit of a resurgence back into my music and stuff. So yeah, all is good, man.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: It's so good. I've been following you on social media. So I saw. Actually the way I discovered you was through Tubsy Shared. Tubsy Shared one in your posts.
Yes, of course. You know Tubsy very well. That's another link we've probably got free Sad. Yeah, really well I thought.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Remember this because for those of you don't know, Gus was one of the, the, the original members of Satrang. Is that correct? Because. Correct. Yeah, very much so. For those who don't know Satrang, awesome band back in the day.
One of the. One of the biggest bang tracks ever. UK bong tracks ever. So I'm assuming you played bass on that, didn't you?
[00:01:26] Speaker A: I did indeed, mate, yes.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll get to that. Tell me a bit about your background before we start where you're from and how did you get into. Well, just tell me a bit about your background to start off with.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Well, I mean I'm a brummy lad, born and bred, you know, so there's that thing. But I'm also a third generation musician.
Like all of my family were all, all singers. Basically it stems back to my sort of grandparents.
Some grandparents had obviously my, my mother and my uncle and they also became very musical back in the way, back in the day. Like, you know, kind of like proper, like, I don't know, English desi, folk music if you like. I mean that's the kind of thing that they did.
And then it was just a natural sort of, you know, things for me to do because I've always been around music since, since you know, since a very young age. So my parents generation, we had all, pretty much most of their offspring got into music. Like obviously we've got my Colleen whose sons went on to be UB40.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: I was just gonna, I was just gonna ask you that.
Are you, you related to UB40? Because I'm a massive UB45. I love.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. You Know, Ali and Robin Campbell are my cousins.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: That is amazing. Wow.
I'm almost like music royalty. That to me, like one step away from musical royalty. I love UB40. They're one of my all time favorite bands.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah, so, you know, they were, you know, it was, you know, it was, it was meant to be if you like. It really, really is in the blood.
All of my family can sing. My mom, my dad, my granny, my granddad, all my uncles. The only one who can't sing is me and my sister.
Like I said, the musical Jane, but unfortunately I didn't inherit the musical voice.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: What happened?
[00:03:31] Speaker A: I don't know.
But I'll take the musical Jane on board. Thank you very much. John remains so absolute, you know, so it was just, you know, living in Birmingham, growing up in Birmingham, you are, you know, we're probably one of the most multicultural cities in the uk, do you know what I mean? And by and large, we all get on.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Really.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Do you mean. So, yeah, at a very early age, I was always exposed to different musics, you know, Caribbean music, Indian music type of thing. So it was no stranger to any of it, you know, so.
So yes, it was a natural thing for me to do and my weapon of choice when I was allowed to base, so I learned to play bass guitar.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: So how did you get into. Into the bass?
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Well, when we were kids, we wanted to do a band.
My mate was the drummer, the other guy was the guitarist. So I didn't have a choice as you do. You're going to either be bass or nothing mates. So take your choice. I was like, okay, basic is. But I don't regret that decision as well.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Basic instruments.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: So. So yeah, just kind of cut my teeth locally as a local lad playing in bands.
You know, you get out there, you meet people, don't you? You're playing gigs, you're on the circuit kind of thing and just really enjoyed it. Had a fantastic time.
Like I said, I lived in B and Mosley and stuff and you know, we mixed a lot of different cultures. Got to know quite a few Indian people and stuff. You know what I mean?
I think just one thing led to another. It was just, I think, you know, so sort of perchance moments. I knew a guy who used to play in this Indian band who played bass. Well, I don't want to do it anymore. Do you want to do it for me? Sort of thing. And I was like, okay, yeah, what, what's the crap like?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: So.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: And that he sort of introduced me into. Into Satron So I sort of went along and had an audition. Really?
[00:05:34] Speaker B: You pronounced it perfectly as well.
You pronounce satran perfectly as well.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: There you go. So, yeah, so I went along and met this crazy bunch of guys. Do you remain like.
You know, we kind of took to each other really from the beginning, really, to me. So it was, you know.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Yeah, but your tolerance of alcohol suddenly.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Quite good. Now I know what it is. I'm not much of a drinker myself, but like, I. I know the story.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Oh, you know. Yeah. So what can I say about that? You know, like. But yeah, it was. It was a crazy thing for me because, like, getting to understand Hindu music was like a whole brand new world to me.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: You know, the way it's sort of the way it's done and stuff. So my mind really quite bubbled with it at first.
But after a while, after a few rehearsals and we kept going, we kept going. We kind of, you know, we got to grips with it. And we also don't forget suffering. We had like a white drum and a white guitarist as well. So effectively they'd got a sort of very western sounding rhythm section, you know, from guys who kind of. Who understood, you know, sort of groove and. And funk and reggae and all that. So we're all drawing on all of our influences.
So I think for Satan, we. We provided a good. A good bedrock, but perhaps slightly different to everybody else's because it wasn't necessarily coming from a sort of know, Indian areas, coming from a western area. Yeah, we were paying attention to what was needed for us to, you know, do for the songs. So I think that's kind of where they got there.
A little bit of their own sound. But I think all bands back in those days had their own sound.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: It was an amazing time. Like, you probably already know about this. Cu. Is that. That. That type of mood bangro music. We formed it. The British.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: British, absolutely.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's not. It's not actually Indian, it's actually British.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Which is like. How awesome is that? And we're not. And. And I don't think we shout loud enough about that.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: No, it's a birth. It's a, you know, it was music born out of, you know, a multicultural situation, wasn't it?
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
The Indian guys were picking up influences from being over here and then we were picking influences of what we were hearing from then.
It's a unique time.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's a. And I don't think you'll ever get that back now because like now it's become so generic because of samples and stuff. You won't, you won't get that sound. That's probably my favorite era of music. The bands including South Southern. Yeah. Dcs. You probably know about them. Excellency. All those bands as a kid growing up, they were like, wow, this is like. Because it was something for us.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah. It was in between. We loved everything else we love. Right. Said Dread Jacko. What I did anyway. And 80s rock. I loved all that. But you had something that was specific that met us, Met us as a third culture. Because that's what we all were really. A third culture here.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: So.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you meant like, you know Taz back in the day. He used to. He was. He took all that on, didn't he? The whole kind of the MJ kind of thing. You can see where his influences are coming from too. Do you know what I mean? And so it just made it right for the people at that time, you know, within the sort of growth of Indian culture over here and stuff.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: So absolutely.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: I'm proud to be part of that. Do you know what I mean?
[00:09:19] Speaker B: You know, that's exactly why I wanted you on here because it was such a. Is. I just want to see from your side as well. But before we sort of get into that, how did you learn bass? Did you just pick it up one day or, or. Because I know that what you just said earlier that, that you. The rest of your band through you as the bass player. But how, what, what did you do to learn it? Because.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: I was, you know, like most kids back in those days when we, you know, we were. We didn't really have. There wasn't. These are the days where there weren't any jobs. When you left school, there was nothing to do. Do you know what I mean? It was hard times. So we would just kind of amuse ourselves with music. I was self taught for a few years and I thought I was the bees knees. I really did. I thought I was really good at it. But then I had this opportunity, what they called. I don't know what they called it, community program service and things. And they ran, they were running like a music jazz course and I was lucky enough to get on it.
So I had about. I had a year there where literally the government were paying me to go there and just learn how to be a better musician. And I was very, very lucky because I was mixing the really great caliber of musician. So when I went there, I realized how terrible I really was.
Really was just A beginner. And that year I sat down and I just went there every day and my fingers literally blistered and absorbed all the other knowledge from all the other really sort of talented musicians there. By the time I finished that place after a year, I kind of knew what I was doing then. You know, when I was sort of fairly sought after, I could, you know, I could maneuver through different genres of music. I was playing in funk bands, I was being asked to do gigs on the jazz circuit, I was doing little bits and bobs of reggae. I made a bit of a local name for myself as a bass player. So kind of that's probably one of the reasons why we got noticed, you know?
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I'm learning piano at the moment. Right.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah. No YouTube then mate.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: No, no YouTube then. I've actually got a teacher, I've got Lynn from YouTube. I've got this teacher called Shirley. Right. She's probably a 60 year old woman but she, she mainly teaches kids.
Yeah, she's invented teaching me. Don't worry sweetie. That's such, I learned so well off her. She such a good teacher.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: But yeah, one, I mean, you know, I learned. Everything I learned was through interactions with other musicians really, you know, you can pick up stuff from books and teachers and whatnot but you really, really have to. Once you get out there and start to interact with other musicians, that's when you start to understand what your role is. Like you know, a keyboard player or as a bass player or as a guitarist, which is like what you've said that we can't. I think we're missing out a bit on that now.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's definitely, it's, it's, it's, it all saddens me because as I said, like it's a British thing, something we should be proud of and it's just gone. It's, it's. I, I don't think music's got that, that, that, that, that staying power now. You know, a track's gone and heard and it's gone. Whereas I'm still listening to UB40 so something does it. It might be my age to be.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Famous music so transient as you say, that people just pick it up one day and then they throw it away, you know, like the next day. But I think why the really good tunes from sort of, you know, back in the day of Endured is because there's, you know, they were so good, they're so ingrained in people's memories, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you grow up listening to what your parents listen to.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: But I think as time's going by and as you say, it's getting less memorable, it's getting more generic.
So I, I, I wonder in 50 years time whether it'll still be our generation music that listening to and not bothering listen to anything in between because it was just, it wasn't good enough.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: I actually think so. Because like I remember, I think part of the problem is I remember when you were in the 80s and 90s, if you bought an album, it was an event, wasn't it? But you go out and, and you buy the latest, I don't know, say I bought the latest album, I'd go home, put it down, there'd be no distractions. I listen to every song and then I'll take it.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: See as a musician where you see where it's recorded and you know that interested you? Do you know what I mean?
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Hi guys, this is Raj Kaul. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. If you want to support the rest of my music, if you could go and check me out on Spotify, on Apple Music and add my songs to your playlists if you like them. Thank you.
And I listen to that album, that was my album for the, for the next few weeks until I could bought another album. Yeah, of course.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: Yeah. But there's, there's a key thing here. You were listening, right?
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: People don't, they listen with their eyes now.
Yeah, that's what it is, you say, so like music, you have to, it's become a phone thing now. Most, a lot of people listen to this on the phone and if there's not a visual aspect to it, we just move on type of thing, you know, so.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: These fans got shorter. It's got a lot, lot shorter for music, unfortunately.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: You know, it has. And these days you're listening to music, but you're doing 21 of the things, aren't you?
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it.
That's modern life for you, unfortunately, isn't it? You know, so.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you do. So what in terms of your bass, I remember you picked it up with the band. How did you just do, did you just like sort of. Okay, start playing with the strings and think, okay, this is, this is a note here and it matches with what they're doing. Was it like that or.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. Because they didn't really know how to guide me because they didn't really know anything about what I should be doing. Like, you know, it's like, what an amazing time you're the bass player, you know, you work it out sort of thing like so.
Because in. In reality there wasn't, you know, it wasn't a set instrument. Like no, you know, the keyboard player knows what he's doing. He's playing the melody, you know what I mean? And you know, the dor player knows what he's doing. He's holding the beat down sort of thing. So I. I just sort of listen to his great plays guy from the Griff as I hard actually I can't remember now. I kind of a few listens of like kind of hear what he was doing. Had a listen to a few kind of records at the time. Tried to work out what. What the guys were doing. But I think the, the awkward thing for when you cross over from Western so like eastern music is there's like, there's a different sense of rhythm, a different sense of bar count.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Because some of them not the time signatures are totally different than some of the songs. Yeah.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Just odd stuff. It's like, you know, what's in world, you know, things working eights and 16s and 24s. But then in Indian music it might be like a six and then a two. Yeah. And then another and then a 16. You know, it doesn't. They don't work in the same sort of way. So you kind of had to. You have to unlearn everything you thought you knew and kind of.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: It's not as prevalent now because originally Indian music was based off Indian classical music.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: That was the foundation of it. And then you've got like, sort of much like western classical as well. You've got so many different time signatures and you've got like a beat called like rupak which is the seven beat cycle and D which is going into.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: More classical side of things, isn't it?
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So you got those and. And that based on before even the melodies and stuff. And these guys, the people who were trained, any training they had would have been from that. That's why you'd get that in the melodies and compositions as well.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Always an awkward thing with. With bung music was that when they'd finished a pattern there'd always be like an extra two beats on the end of the pattern to be like going kind of thing. And then when they used to say oh, we want it to sound like this. So they'd ask for like, they'd want like a four bar western groove. But then when they come to that end of that groove, they wanted an extra two beats for the little drum roll. Before they go the next one. And that will throw the groom out, because you can't. Because then the groove shouldn't be half a bar out next one.
It was always a, you know, challenge to try and make it. Make it all kind of fit together, you know.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: So how did you meet something? You were introduced by one of your friends who was another base.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: So what was your first meeting like with Satran?
[00:18:51] Speaker A: So the first meeting, yeah, was. Was the.
Was a rehearsal space up in Smethwick. I can't remember where it was, but it was a. Somebody was there and. And yeah, it was just like he. My mate came along with me, tried to explain to me what to do, but then it dawned on me that he didn't actually know what he was doing either. So I think that's why he'd had enough. And yeah, it was just like. As I was saying, my mind boggled. It really, really did as to like, wow, okay, what am I doing here? Do you know what I mean? Sort of thing. Like a couple of guys tried to help me out and stuff, but. But the whole thing was completely alien to me, you know, the way the sort of the melodies and the chord movements and all the bar counts and what sort of thing. So I'm not gonna lie, I struggled at first. I really, really did because I couldn't memorize anything because, you know, I didn't understand the language and, you know, I didn't Germaine sort of stuff and the playing keys I wasn't used to and stuff. So. Yeah, and they stuck with it. Do you know what I mean? They stuck with me and stuff. And eventually I started to pick it up then. And when me, Kelly and Shane was through a lot of the rhythms, when we started to pick you up, that's when we realized that we were. Oh, actually, you know, we can. We can add something to this. Do you know what I mean? We can sort of add a. Add a flavor and a. And a style. And that's. That's when you could kind of hear SA's their style coming through. German sort of thing.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: You know, one of the most iconic.
The bass is crazy.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Well, that's it. I'm pouring all my years of knowledge of jazz and soul and funking. I'm just trying to.
Music for me, if I'm not at my best all the time, trying my best, then what's the point?
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Yeah, so did you have to go home and like, you must have to practice hours at home just. Just to get that vibe, or was it just Written the rehearsals or.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Well, no, yeah. I mean, like, to. To be honest with you, you know, we. We'd have. If we could get all the cars together for a rehearsal, that. That would have been a. You know, that was a great thing, but I literally learned it on the. On the job. Do you know what I mean? Because you got to remember here that, like, it's not a prominent instrument, the bass.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: No.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: So they're not necessarily paying as much attention to it as, say, the singer or the keyboard. You know, if the singer's out, the keyboard players playing the wrong melody, everybody's going to notice that. But the guy kind of chugging away in the background there, you're kind of adding a frequency, do you know what I mean? But. But after a while, I. I got to. I. I got to learn the set. I mean, and then that's quite strange because three hours of music in a wedding, you'd be playing for two, three hours. It's, you know, and then you have to play requests and then all this type of thing, you know. I don't know that one.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: So, you know, I just might say. Because that's quite strange because, like, Atomician. For me, bass is one of the most significant things because it just. Otherwise the band sounds empty.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Without the bass player. I suppose that's good experience, isn't it?
[00:22:01] Speaker A: So, so, yeah, it's, you know, it pins the whole thing down. The bass and the drums, they've got to be right. Especially as you say, particularly to, you know, to Bungra. Not necessarily say classical or semi classical. That's not a. But it's about. But bunga. It's got that Western power, that energy of the. The kicking drums and the loud bass, and it really gives it that. That energy, you know what I mean? Maybe you got the doll and the dollop going as well. It's.
It's a sound, isn't it? You know. Certainly used to fill those halls when we were bashing away at it, I can tell you, mate.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: So what was the experience of your first. Of your first Indian wedding?
[00:22:38] Speaker A: I wish I could tell you which one that was, to be honest with you.
But if I'm really honest, you'll have probably been the 19 in Smithic, really.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: That's the point, you know, that is.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Is it really?
Yeah. To be honest with you. I've got. I've got memories of the. That's the thing. That's where we started out, that. The nightingale. That's medic. But that was always. That was always an interesting time.
But then we started to play around the place. You know, we got.
You know, we were.
Played most cities in the end, I think, you know, so well where there was an Indian community anyway, so.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: Because I remember when I was a kid, we used to. I used to go to Sookie's house. He wasn't there.
I think after, after you guys. Satan, he was with Ani.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Aniki. Yeah. Yeah. So. But he was never at home. And. And when he was at home, he. He was playing keys or he had. He had an Atari.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: What was it?
[00:23:35] Speaker B: Atari st maybe he was doing his.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember those. Yeah.
I think. I think the. The weapon of choice with the keyboard is a Corg M1. Got a Cor M1 or a Roland DT50 or something.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: I can't remember it.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: But that was the sound of Bungalow back in those days.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: So I've been brought up with that. Like musicians coming home and stuff.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Oh, there you go.
I always made a joke about keyboardists with Bunger Band. I say look at keyboard. So I bet you C sharp and D sharp are broke, aren't they?
[00:24:08] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Wow.
So, okay, so tell me about you. You started with the bands. Any, any. Any really memorable stories you want to tell me?
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Quite a few, but probably repeat on this show.
Yeah, loads of. Loads of memories. You know, going to. Going to. Playing somebody's wedding in Toronto. That was fantastic. They threw us out to Canada and we stayed.
Stayed in this guy's house and we did a couple of gigs over there and weddings. So that was really memorable.
Going to San Francisco as well. We did a. We did a gig over there. It was brilliant.
Hepton Bridge was a really fantastic time as well. And Matt made fantastic. They were culturally interested up there and with sort of. There was a wider audience, but we were playing Bungalow stuff and they were. They were. They were really interested in it and stuff. So.
Yeah, some really memorable, memorable gigs. I mean we're. We were up and down everywhere really. We used to be down in London doing the daytime ones would be Crystals in Nottingham midweek doing a. Doing a gig and all that kind of thing.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: So, you know, I remember Crystal. I've never been to there.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a big bunger night. That was, you know, like, if you're doing that, you were. You were somebody like to rain. So, yeah, all sorts, you know, playing massive golf clubs with guys coming in with six horse carriage and all that kind of thing. You know, the way the Indians like to show off when they're getting married. A little bit there. Do you know what I mean? So.
So, yeah, a funny story. So a wedding. We're on stage and these guys come up just like, oh, hi, how's it going, guys? And all that, and asking what you play and.
And he's gonna. Obviously interested in me. Oh, what, what do you play? And I was like, oh, I'll play.
I play the bass. And he's like, so, bass?
I said, yeah, bass. Basically it's a guitar, but it's only got four strings anyway. Ah, but can you play the.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So he's referring to Bumpy. You're probably afraid.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: Yeah, so she got me there.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: You know, in terms of, like, culturally, how did you sort of adapt to the. To the. To the. In. To Indian? Because it's a bit different, isn't it? Especially the drinking and doing and, and just in terms of like, the family structures as well. I'm assuming you're probably fed at. At people's houses as well and.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: Oh, God, yeah. You know, we, we. We'd stop over occasionally, you know, if it was early or late, you know.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: You couldn't step. You can't step into an Indian now without getting fed, can you? To remains.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
How did you adapt to that? Because it must have been like a bit of a culture shock for you as well, with 10 slightly.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, a little bit. But that's, you know, that's where I learned about Indian culture. Do you mean, you know, came very relaxed with it and we was, you know, they were all very.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: We were all.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: We never had a problem at all. It was great, you know, got. Always got fed at the. At the weddings and stuff. Do you know what I mean? And looked after and, you know, I mean, you know, Indian hospitality is famous, isn't it? You know, so nobody posts a wedging like the.
Like the Indians do. So it's. It's always really good. Always a pleasure experience.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: So in terms of bangro music in the UK now, music, let's say I can say it to you properly, the correct pronunciation because, you know. So what do you think's happened to Tonga? We discussed a bit earlier that that whole band scene's gone and. And you've got like quite generic music now. What. What do you think's happened from an outsider? Well, you're an outsider and an insider at the same time.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: I think what's happened is, is. Is that music moves with music is generational.
Okay. So obviously when. Well, when the grandparents came over, they were just listening to music from back home. Do you know what I Mean, and then when their children were born, they were listening to music that they heard here, but then they were listening to music that they heard home.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: And then we had that sort of. And then it started to melt together. And then kind of, you know, as you say, we had this unique situation where we have, you know, bungalow music from. From this country. And that was great. But now the generation after that, they've kind of not really listened to what the grandparents listen to. Listen to a little bit what their parents listen to, but now they're listening to predominantly Western music. So I think what's happening now is, you know, Indian artists are always.
Everyone's going to want to make music wherever they come from. But I think now what's happening is I'm sort of. I'd say that, you know, kids sort of grown up in the 2000s now who are producing music now.
Yeah, they're going to be doing, like, kind of grimy stuff now. They're gonna. I think. I think ultimately the traditional instruments have probably died away a little bit because they're not really caring them that much anymore. So, you know, I don't know, there's a bit of a melting pot again. But I think, I think the. The music, the bunga music that we know, it's just had its time, really, I think, to me. So I don't know where it's going now, really. I. I see a lot of young guys, see a lot of Indian rappers, and they. They're taking on that kind of grind kind of thing now. They're not really identifying with the. The kind of Indian cultural side of it.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Hi, guys, this is Raj Kaul. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. If you want to support the rest of my music, if you could go and check me out on Spotify on Apple Music and add my songs to your playlists if you like them. Thank you.
I don't even mean that. I mean, like, the whole band scene's gone.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's gone.
It's.
They got. They got priced out the market. That's the truth of it, you know, like, you know, back in those days when you, you know, you were paying good money for a band to come and do a, you know, a. A day's entertainment. Then the kind of. The DJ thing came in and then we were finding ourselves being out priced by DJs who come along and I said, well, I'll pay all the records and kind of thing. And really they stole the market because they just, you know, that.
That priced us. They just, you know, and unfortunately, want.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: No.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: I don't know, I should imagine some of them are kind of charging fortune, do you know what I mean?
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Like, some of them £10,000, like for an E day.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: But he's turning up the lights in the pa.
He brings the whole thing.
So, yeah, it was unfortunate that the band started because it was a. It was a real.
A real beautiful thing, you know.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: That's really insightful. Really, really amazing. So we'll. We'll sort of wrap up.
Just tell me you've got a hoodie. B15 project. You want to tell us about that?
[00:31:58] Speaker A: B15 project. Birmingham's very own postcard band.
Yeah, because, like, after I left, after I kind of. After that scene died, I got into sort of dance music and stuff. And me and my friend sitting there, it's going, what should call the project? I said, I don't know. He says, well, where are we?
That's B16, isn't it? Big 15 project.
And we were making garage music back in those days, but hadn't quite blown up at that time. It was still very much an underground kind of scene. And I was making that music. I mean, I thought I was making underground garage music. Turns out I was making pop music. But, you know, I didn't put it quite as cool as the thought I was.
So, yeah, we were just bumbling along, just, you know, we just literally, I don't know, we just had a lucky chance. We got hold of some records we were able to remix.
One was called Birmingham Crew, which is just still to this day, absolutely, you know, killing it in Birmingham. And then we made another track called Girls Like Us and it sat in the CD in her office for a year doing nothing, just. Nobody knew anything about it. And then a last from London came up from EMI Recording to Should. That's a hit record.
And they're like, really? And they're like, that's a hit record. And she wasn't wrong, you know, it rolled its way down to London, got signed up to Relentless, which was part of Virgin, and they got it to number seven in the charts, which was just an amazing thing, you know.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: So, yeah, we had. We had a. We had a fantastic summer off the back of that playing. We Top the Pops, we did all sorts. MTV shot videos in Spain. Yeah, so it was a. The golden time, you know, so. But I kind of garage died then.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: And I kind of dipped out the scene. I went into film and TV music. And then I had an epiphany a few years ago and I thought, you know, What? I'm gonna teach myself to dj. I'm just gonna get out there and have a bit of fun with it. And that's where I'm now out and about now with the B15 project. I've been having a real good time.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: Oh, that's absolutely amazing because number seven. I'm actually talking too long full on slip, aren't I?
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Ah, stop it. No.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Tell you humble guy, but really number, like number seven in the top.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Charts back those. It kind of meant something back then. It was still a thing, I think, the charts a few years ago now.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: You went Top of the Pops as well, did you?
[00:34:42] Speaker A: The Top of the Pops as well? Yeah, which is funny. That was. That was a funny experience.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: You know.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: As a child, as a sort of somebody who's grown up with that and then becoming a musician. So it was quite literally the last place on earth I would ever expected to have found myself was on Top of the Pops. But when we were stationed on there, it was a bit of a pinch me moment. It's like, my God, what was that like?
It's just the whole thing's surreal. It's kind of bizarre because obviously it's a working studio, so the guys that are there, it's just another day for them. Yeah, they're shooting Top of the Pops all the time type of things.
But we're going there and we go to the cafe and of course it's the same studio that they shoot EastEnders at, so, like we're sitting in a cafe and there's like, you know, Patsy Palmer and all kind of things. They're eating beans on toast with the. With the crew from. And all the cats from EastEnders and all sorts of. So. Wow. And then we get into Top of the Pops and it's tiny. A tiny little studio like you think. Everyone thinks it's huge. It's absolutely tiny studio kind of thing. So, you know, we had our own dressing room. That was the thing. We look. Our own dressing room. Top of the Pop. So. So, yeah, it's a slightly, slightly surreal moment, but one I'll never forget, that's for sure.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: That's amazing. Crazy. So you're saying you, you. You did TV and, and TV and movies for a while, did you. So, any. Have your tracks been in any famous films?
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Gosh, yeah, No. I mean, I've got a 20 year sort of career in film, TV, music.
I've had a track on the last Blade Runner movie.
Yeah, I've had one of my most tracks used on a James Bond trailer movie.
I'VE got quite a few tracks and some marvel stuff.
All sorts really. About three years ago I did a 20 track Bollywood album as well.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Really? You're not gonna message you after because you're gonna send me all these links after.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: So I know for a fact if you watch anything Indian on Netflix, I'm guaranteed you already know my music. So.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: I've just interested. I've just signed a sync licensing deal with a company in America called 10 West.
[00:37:07] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's in the process. I've do 10 of my. In. In my. My bungalow tracks I've done.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: That's it?
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that's it. I say the problem. But there is a garage track. There's like electronic bungalow track and so.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: They'Ve got influence, they've got, you know.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: Yeah. But then I've got some. But I've got some traditional sort of UK style, about 2, 3 proper Dumby and th. And that kind of vibes in there. So the.
This company, they like the track. So they're in Hollywood somewhere. They do stuff like wwe, stuff like that. So hopefully comes out of it. Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: No. What. But don't. It's a. This stuff. Slow Burners. You see what happen is it will take it off you. They'll put it into the system. Yeah. Two or three years down the line, you look at your royalty statement and go, oh, oh, it's got used on that. Oh, it's got used on that kind of thing, you know. So I mean, you know, not to blow myself up here but my, my role to be like 6, 700 pages long stuff that gets all the time on film and tv.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: That's what I'm working on as also.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: That's it, just keep going.
[00:38:17] Speaker B: It's a long, long, long process.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: Slow burner. But I mean, you know, you know, it sort of took me 20 years but I'm in a lucky position with it now.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: So I was speaking to you. Did you know Diamond, Dougal?
[00:38:32] Speaker A: I know diamond, yeah. Simon, the diamond from back in the day. Yeah.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: Honestly, he took. Took half an hour of his time.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: He's a busy guy and he schooled me on, on, on Sync Licensing. So he. He hung me up and told me everything about it. Ins, ins and out, how to get into. I mean, who does that these days?
[00:38:53] Speaker A: No, it's good, isn't it? It's good, man. You should be here to help each other, not hinder.
Do better when we all come together.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: So yeah.
If you. Yeah. So what's the future for yourself?
[00:39:08] Speaker A: It's the future for me, like. Yeah, the future for me right now is I'm. I've. I've really, as I said, I've really started to enjoy DJing.
It's just something I enjoy. I mean I've always enjoyed sharing musical my whole life through being on stage and playing. So whether it's a bass, whether it's a keyboard or whether it's a set of decks, it's just something I like to do and where to be. I don't necessarily have the day to day pressure of having to sort of make ends meet in the studio these days. So I can kind of pick and choose kind of what I want to do and stuff.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: So I'm just growing my, my DJ world at the minute. I've been, you know, I'm doing sort of original mashups and edits now. Stuff that nobody's got, so creating my own unique music so I can bring that to a. To the table for when they book me and stuff. So right now, yeah, that's, that's definitely my focus. 2025.
I intend to be on a festival that's. That's my next goal. Did I through recently. I've done a. I've done a wedding. I've done a private party to the Christmas party. So I'm knocking them all off the list. Festivals.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Glastonbury next year, hopefully.
[00:40:18] Speaker A: Well, not glass. I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't utter those words to myself. But you never know. Keep going.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: It's interesting. My wife did apply for. Because my wife manages me. She does, she does all my bookings and stuff on that.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: She did apply to Glastonbury.
Yeah. But it's a tough one, isn't it?
[00:40:36] Speaker A: It is a very, very tough one, you know. So I'm hoping to do, potentially going over to Croatia next year to. To do a festival over there. Potentially.
There's a few other bits and bobs, but yeah, that's what I'm doing. That's amazing.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's been absolute pleasure talking to you because if you're, if you're. By the way, if you. Are you still in Birmingham?
[00:40:58] Speaker A: I'm still in Birmingham, yeah.
[00:40:59] Speaker B: We've got a link up outside of this. You can come down and you can sort of where you're not. Indian hospitality. You come down.
[00:41:05] Speaker A: No, that's fine, mate. Looks you got my number. You're welcome anytime. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: I hope it's not been a waste of time.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: We got something. It's been amazing. And what I'll probably do as well, I will talk offline. Anyway, so guys, that was. Where can we catch you? Where can the audience catch you if they want to follow you? And social media.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: Oh, on the socials, really? We've got. You got Gussy Campbell Facebook or you've got at B15. It will take you to Instagram on Tick Tock. Yeah, it could be 15 projects on tick Tock or Instagram. Look up Gossip Campbell on Facebook.
Follow my crazy mad musical journey. It's all there for people to see if they're interested.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: Amazing. So one question. Sometimes I forget, sometimes I remember I've remembered. In your case, the podcast is about musical excellence. What advice would you give to myself and to any other budding musicians? How to pursue musical excellence.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: I mean, musical accents when I was a child meant you had to learn an instrument.
Nowadays it doesn't. It's very different these days. People can go to a computer, they can get a software, they can drag, drag and drop loops in and stuff and, and make music. That's great. But that's a shortcut, right? The, the real way to unlock it all properties. You have to learn some kind of instrument, whether it's a keyboard or guitar or something, because that's going to be your way of being able to sort of channel your expression and creativity through. Don't just rely on modern technology doing it all for you. Don't buy an AI program and go, oh, I want a hip hop track. Click. And I want it to be this click. Because it's a quick fix, but you'll run out of ideas. So unfortunately, you know, there's no quick fixes. It's a long road. Learn an instrument. That's all I can say. If you want to be a producer.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: It'S really interesting because, because I was thinking about this the other day.
You, you'll say you have an AI track. They don't. The AI is not going to play this type of augmented chord for you. You have to know that yourself. They're just going to play the simple chords and the structure is going to be quite simple. But you have to know that theory in the first place.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: You absolutely do. And that's the thing. And there's no shortcut to it.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: No, it takes time.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: You know, musical knowledge, musical theory takes time. You can get a quick fix from a program now, but in the long run, you won't be able to do the long run because you won't have the true building blocks that you need.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: Absolutely. And, and I Just want to make a point in that I think going forward in the future of AI because there's going to be so much music out that's already popular. The people who are going to stand out are the people who are. I think we're going to go full circle. The people who actually know what they're doing. And I don't mean that in a drug tree way. I mean as you said, who. People who have been taught music or, or taught themselves music. I think that those are the ones who are going to stand out.
[00:44:16] Speaker A: I'm using AI but I use it in the sense that like I haven't got a great voice. So if I need a backing vocal, I can sing into the AI I can then use the AI also sing to me. I'm. I'm still in control of my creativity with it. I'm not looking for it to. Yeah, look, looking for it to replace me or what I think. But I'll certainly utilize the tools around me to enhance what I do. Do you know what I mean? Wouldn't look for AI to do it for me. And then take there was funny, there was somebody on a. Somebody said, oh, I've made these tunes on an IA IA software. What do you think of it? Somebody put it up and said, well, what exactly did you do?
Like, well, you didn't do anything. You're presenting what a software did for you. So it's not actually your music.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: No.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: So where, where, where do you, where do you fit in? Like, do you know what I mean? So you know, if you just want. Oh, I say, I think what you think so. Well, I think the AI I'm not, you know, see what I'm trying to say there? It's absolutely, yeah, you know, like artistry is as good as, you know, the people that are making as such. And I think people who know what they're doing will use AI to their advantage and make great music.
[00:45:39] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:45:40] Speaker A: The cardboard put out cookie. People who just, you know, think they can press a few buttons and they, they've got it. That as you say that that will never, will never make the grade in the end.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: No.
Oh, fantastic.
[00:45:53] Speaker A: Okay, my friend.
[00:45:54] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Gus. And yeah, hopefully I'm just gonna hit the stop the record button. Then we'll just chat a minute offline. Won't keep you too long. So guys, that was Gus.
Gussy G in the house. Yeah, Gussie G in the house. Make sure you follow him on social media, leave a review on the podcast, leave a comment, and if you're watching this on social media clip. Just drop a comment, drop a like and make sure you're following. All right, thank you so much. Until we meet.
