Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: Hi, guys. Welcome once again to the Rajpool podcast. I've got an amazing guest today who I've actually known for a while. He doesn't know that I know him for a while, but we'll talk about that in a, in a little while. So I'm going to introduce, introduce to you. Boop. Sagu, how are you, bro?
[00:00:30] Speaker B: I'm all right. Raj, how are you, man?
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks. Thanks. How you been?
[00:00:36] Speaker B: I've been alright. Been busy. It's been a very busy wedding season. I'm a dj as well, obviously, so I've been very busy with that. Been busy just finishing my album.
I've got a couple of eps for other artists and, yeah, it's just been constant. And the kids have been on holidays as well during the season, so been a very hectic few months, gotta say.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Ah, cool. So how's your music released? I heard you got a, you had just a release in June, didn't you just.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was June or July, just before I got really, really slammed to the point where it's just been constant gigging, so it's, which is good. Shells have been busy. So I had my last release of July, but then I, they've just finished my album now, which is my solo album. Yeah, yeah. My fourth album of my career, solo album. And I've been, I've got a couple of artists that I've signed up.
One is an artist I'm working with, for example, Jorban, which is the last one I released in July and with. So he finished his ep, just collaborated with a californian artiste, finished his ep and, yeah, just over 50 completed songs at this point in time. So now is the scheduling them to release as well as other, you know, work for other clients.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: That's crazy. How do you, how do you balance your djing and your music production? Because that must be like. And family life as a whole.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, to be fair, it's all part of the team, like, you know, and the power of delegationism is brilliant. And having a team is great. So I have a team that takes care of the live side of things with the road shows and with the weddings and bookings and et cetera, et cetera, where I can help out, I do. Otherwise, I'm very busy with making music pretty much every other day, like slammed in the studio. So I try to balance it out. So I've got family time. I'm a full time dad during the daytimes, do the drop offs at school and pickups, and then in the evenings, I just put myself in a lot myself away and just continue making music. And the weekends, always busy with events.
So, yeah, it's just. You just find your balance, don't you? You find what works. And so I've been doing that for two decades now.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: So what I love about yourself, whoops. I've got admit, is that you've all. You're always progressing and I always see you doing lots of. I remember you were doing, like, even your YouTube tutorials doing. What was it?
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So that was during lockdown. I, you know, had the itch. I'm like, I can't not do anything right musically or performing. And this just made sense. I've always wanted to do a lot of YouTube. It's a lot harder now, you know, busy with the children, they're growing up and et cetera. But with lockdown, I had a lot more time to start that and I'm actually restarting that. I'm just doing a different format of what the way I want to do it. So my initial take was, let's just see if people take this on. There's never been a punjabi producer on YouTube until I started it. Yeah, you did.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: And to be fair, just a bit of feedback. It was. I really enjoyed those sessions. I was actually looking forward to more. And you had the sample as well, didn't you?
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So that just came with it. So it's. It was a case of, okay, I can do the YouTube. People are learning, people are enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. It was a lot of work, don't get me wrong, because it's just something, you know, we were locked down. I didn't really have help apart from what was on YouTube and, you know, tutorials that I could find on how to edit, how to record. So I bought myself a Sony, a 73.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Piece of equipment.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I bought the stuff that I needed. I'm like, okay, let's just try this. So it was a lot of trial and error till I found my format.
But then the good thing is. But then I just got busy when lockdown opened, show started again.
It just got a lot harder to continue with that because that process used to take me because I was new to it, right. I couldn't really. It was hard for me. It's hard for me to trust another editor, how I wanted to edit. And we tried it, it just didn't work. So I had to do it myself. So the process used to take me about four days. Right? Yeah. Because for me, it was a learning thing. I'm filming.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: The videos came out really good. I'm not a producer, but I enjoyed because you're the only guy who was doing a. I like that. I mean, there's loads of them now.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: But, yeah, lots more.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah. At that point, I think you were the only guy.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: I was the only one. So this was the scary part. And I'm okay. I can see he's been done with hip hop, he's been done with commercial music, reggaeton. You see those producers, but no one's ever done it for Punjabi. Right. I thought, let's just see if, you know, this works. And it did it pretty much from the first episode. There's great feedback and then it continued. Continued for months, like, you know, for a very long time and.
But then, like I said, it got difficult for me, but I'm finding a new way of coming back into it with something a little more easier for me to shoot and edit and get out a bit more streamlined. I'm not a whole 30 minutes episode like I used to do, but I'll figure that out. But yes, after that, the good thing is the wave of producers, their confidence on coming on screen, you know, making beats and sharing their knowledge and their talent. I think people needed someone to break the ice, and I was that person. I broke the ice for being that producer on YouTube and just, you know, just go with the flow.
You know, it's just off the cuff. And I think the off the cuff with Punjabi produces back in the day, you know, it was difficult because they didn't want to show their errors. I don't really care. Right. So for me it says, this is who I am. I make errors too, and I'm learning at the same time. Don't get me wrong, when I was doing something, I would learn from the comments. If somebody had a better way of doing it, it just made better. But this is just a way of sharing knowledge. Right.
But I'm glad I'm seeing that there's a lot more people emerging, a lot more people you see in the studio making beats, you know, making remixes and stuff. And they're just doing it now because I guess it was just a confidence back then. I guess I was one of them. Want to start that? You know, get the wheels turning.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Amazing. So how did you actually get into djing first and then obviously into production DJ's?
[00:07:43] Speaker B: That's a very long story. So I started in a nutshell. I was a bhangra dancer at the age of eleven.
Yeah, I danced for a local team in Wolverhampton, I'm the oldest bhangra team in the country, Punjabangara group.
And I, you know, because I love music.
Prior to that, I used to play tabla and learn at Malaka Gurdwara. My mum brought me a doll when she went to India. I was like, eight or nine, so, you know, just jamming and just. Just wanted to pick that up. And.
And the way I learned was quite interesting. So when my mum went to India, I told her to get loads of cassettes off door keep dawk players and door players. And do you remember you used to have those old ghetto blasters where you saw two cassettes and the plus and minus one speed? Double speed.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: So I figured out a way of recording double speed on an empty cassette and they're playing it back. Normal speed, it'd be half the speed.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Right. And that's how I picked up, because nobody to teach doll back in the day. This is when I. Years ago. Like three decades ago.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Right. So then I listened to the sounds of the doll on half speed, wrote them down. I used to draw a line for the treble, side circle for the bayside and then just pieced it together. So I taught myself, I think, because I taught myself, I was, um. I. I don't know, I was. I guess my mindset was different when I went into the industry. No one's really taught me how to be industry, um, like, groomed. Yeah, right. So I was raw. Um, so I guess the bhangra team saw that. Promoted me to, like, a door player and all sorts. And then, um, I joined the dj's back in the day. Wedding dj's. There weren't. There was a handful of, you know, main ones and they saw me perform. They used to dance with the doll as well. Um, so then I started playing with all the main dj's and then. Then I got the love for djing, watching them do it, watching them perform live. So, you know, pick that talent up and then start doing. Just messing around with them live. And then I became a professional. At the age of 16, I did my first wedding.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: That's. Wow. At 1616.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: In Solihill. I remember that venue, really. And then. So. And that's pretty much it. During that time as well, I was also in the bands, like, with suffray boys, DC's. I played. I played with everyone you can possibly think of. And the live scene back in the day. So I was juggling that and my djing at weddings and then I was djing in clubs whilst at uni. So, yeah, it's just. It was just a natural progression, I guess. Production came up.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: Did you get into. How did that lead to production?
[00:10:33] Speaker B: It's always been the love of music, and it's just trial and erroring myself. Not really having, you know, musically, no one's ever taught me. I've just kind of picked it up by ear. Right. So I kind of knew my way around the keyboard a little.
But then after my degree in accounting, after my degree in accounting, I moved to London for a bit, studied at IMW, Islington music workshop, as a really good teacher called Simon Tillbrook, and taught me a lot about the sonics and music production and piecing things together. Different equipment, the midi side of things, the audio side of things. I think that was the missing piece. I needed that knowledge on how to do it myself, because the ideas are in here. Yeah. And the thing is, it's hard if it's. It's good. It sounds great in your head.
Right. But you need to get that out on paper. Well, onto the computer and spools back in the day. So it was just. It was just, how do I translate from there to there? And, you know, and trigger, you know, channel that. And that's what it was. So I think I needed that part of how to produce, which I did in London. That came back, started producing my own work, left my job completely broke, put all the money into making music. Making my first album on my second. So my first solo album, and was redefined with Lemberg, Pooja, the Gamia. You know, loads of people on there can't remember.
It was a big album.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Those are the days when it was.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Those days.
We actually had physical sales as well.
That soul, not dreams.
And. Yeah, did the album. The album did well. Really well.
Sold a lot of units. Kind of put me on the map. Gave me that confidence. Okay, I can do this again. Then the following year, when I dropped Punjabi Hur, it just kind of cemented my position in the industry.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: But even now, that's a. That's a dance floor banger.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: That is anthem. I can't. I can't top it. Doesn't matter what I do, but it's great. It's a great thing.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
Interestingly, I'll tell you a little story, because I mentioned that I've. No, you know, probably remember me? I know you mentioned a little story. Interestingly, I cash. You came to your studio. See, I used to work with Ritz. Just Ritz.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll tell you a funny story, actually.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: So I came a studio at my dad's.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: Right. The loftier.
So I came to your studio, and it was my bad. You know, when you're young, you know, you. You don't think straight. You just. You just. You just sort of tell. You know, I've sang a song before. I'm gonna go in studio. I'm gonna bounce this song out without actually doing the manta behind it. Right. So I sang this song.
Huh?
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Did I kick you out?
[00:13:25] Speaker A: No, you didn't kick me out. No, no.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: No, no, no. You didn't kick me out. But you noticed that my vocal was terrible. It was rubbish. And you didn't mention to me directly. I mean, you apply enough. But you mentioned rich.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Does he?
[00:13:40] Speaker A: You know, you sort of hinted it to him, which. Which was fair. Which is fair comment. Because, you know, when you're young and you have that. So Jal Makar Lenda without actually having the man and the gyan. Because as you said, there was. There's hardly any teachers, you know, in. In the. In the Midland, especially vocal teachers.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Yeah. No, there weren't many vocal teachers, especially in. In the kind of way we want to perform.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. So there was Matlashiji, who taught shin and stuff. But I remember I tried to get this, but I couldn't get in contact with. But even then, you know, when you're younger, you have a sort of like Arlinda, you know, like, you know.
Yeah, exactly. So. And then that's how I know your studio. And I looked. You know what that song must have been? This must be 1520 years back.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. This was a long time ago. This must be close to 2008.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Hi, guys. This is Raj Kul. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. If you want to support the rest of my music, if you could go and check me out on Spotify on Apple Music and add my songs to your playlists if you like them.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah, probably about that time. And interestingly, I've actually. That song I recorded in your studio that, with the vocal was terrible. Right.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: And.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: And nothing to do with you is basically, my man wasn't there. And I really. I'm just rereleasing that song. Well, actually officially releasing it now next month.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Brilliant. How wicked.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Obviously, obviously with the man and a bit. The more training and stuff and sitting down. So. So that's how I know you from there. And I was. You've always left a good impression because you knew what you're talking about even then in your studio. And it was all what I remember about your studio. It was all wooden wood, wooden clay.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Because I treated it myself. So I had an acoustic engineer come in, say, you need this, this, this. You've got the materials, got the measurements and kind of did it myself. It wasn't perfect, but it was exactly, you know, once you learn your environment.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: It was really nice.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: It was really warm, it was welcoming and it was all I could afford.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: I think you lost, uh, I lost.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Your reception sort of things, which is kind of obsolete now.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Sorry.
Lost you just for a few seconds last year.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I'm saying it was, it was, it was, I put a lot into that. I mean, all that could really have. It wasn't the most expensive studio. It was really, it was expensive, but it's, I think I spent a lot more money on the equipment that I wanted because, and the thing is, it's, it's not like splice right now or arcade. You know, you can just find sounds and sample packs. Back in the day you had Midi devices to, to make your sounds and then layer your sound. So I had a lot of MIDI units, which you probably remember just racks of them because that's where I could find my sounds. I physically had to buy the Midi devices where now you can just take a sample of splice in 2 seconds and destroy it.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: I've worked with producers now and they've just, in a day, they've just made a track with splice. And I went on splice splice the other day. You could put the genre in and it just does the stems for you.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing is, the thing is, using splice and using samples is a great thing. Yeah, right. Like I use, even in my tutorials I was showing, because this is the new age of producers and it's a good thing. It's a good tool to have. The idea is how do you make it your own?
Having a sample is great. Having, like, because on my tutorials I've just had one sample and how have I transformed that one sample into a song? Like how have I manipulated that sample, chopped it up, done whatever? Because that's the idea behind it. You see, like you sometimes you need inspiration. I think splice is a great place for inspiration.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: I don't encourage people just taking layers from splice and putting it together, putting it out there, that just don't make sense. That's like having, I don't know, macaroni and cheese with curry. Yeah.
That's a silly analogy, but it doesn't make sense. Right. You can make a porta of things by just taking samples and just solely relying on that. But if it's specific to a vocal, to a composition, to a melody, you need to learn how to manipulate it or see what works with it.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: As a baseball, whatever.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: My last podcast I had, it's interesting you say that was. Was with a guy called Zayn Zane Copenhagen.
Anyway, he's Zayn. Anyway, so he's. He described your what, the process, what you're saying now as. As being like a chef knowing how to put the ingredients together.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: That's always been the case, Raj. It's always been the case of what sounds to pick. Now, if you're producing a song, there's different methods of working too. Right. You do get some producers that just pick anything on this sounds good, this may sound good, then they chuck it all in and then figure it out. See, I've done that a few times and I do that now and again. It's called process of elimination. Right. Or you can just listen to the sound, say, yep, this is what I want. This is going to go with it. Yep. If I pitch this, da da da da. I'm at that stage now where I can hear something five semitones higher in a faster, you know, tempo or slow tempo. Think, okay, this will fit because of this reason. But I can foresee that, right?
Most of the time, not all the time, but it is. It's about picking the right ingredients. And the thing is, the right side, you can get it terribly right or terribly wrong. Do you know what I mean? It's just. I just think also there's two ways of looking at it. Picking the right sounds, having the right ingredients, just like Zane said, which is exactly what you need to do. Less is more right, and learning to commit. And these three things are very important for any producer, especially if you're on a time scale. Like, I got a lot. I get a lot of client work, so I know I've got specific time. I need to pick the right sounds and it can't be overly produced. That's a big problem, too. When you got splice and other sample packs, they're layered. A lot of the sounds are layered if you got melody or music or whatever going on. So that can clutter a lot of things. You know what I mean? It's learning what to use. So you still got space for other elements, like the vocals, which is a big part of the song. Yeah. So it's. I think it's just a trial and error process. You just need to do it more and more and more to understand what you need.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: Gotcha. The other thing I noticed about splice was one of my songs. One of the producers, he did a garage song. I didn't know he used splice. But then you heard it somewhere else. Yeah, I heard the same sound person put somewhere else.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: This is the day and age, you know, you hear ten songs with the same. Within the same quarter three months, I've got the same sample one way or another.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
And the biggest one is that don't be sample. Sample. Isn't it, like, that's been used for about 20 years?
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. So, like, it's just. That's the thing. It's just how. It depends on how original you want to make your stuff. Do you know what I mean? Like, for me, if I want to make it authentic or specific, I still get instruments recorded because I think it's important to have some element that makes sense if, you know, sometimes you can get away with it. Hip hop music, do you know, I mean, when I make a lot of hip hop beats, you can manipulate that to your favor. They're doing something a bit more melodic then old fashioned recording. Specific is, you know, you can't beat that.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Is it. Is it harder to do now? Like, get. Get live recording in these days because sampling so easy, or is it the same?
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Well, samplings at your disposal. And if you are. If I'm doing an acoustic song, right, I know. Okay, I need to start the process now. Right. I can use real guitar. I can map out. I can play MIdi wise, you know, use different plugins to get that. You're not going to get that same authentic sound. Or if I find a riff online, okay, we can work around this. Once I put that in play, then the. I can get my guitarist in and then we can just go through, say, this is the melody. This is what I've got. I like this idea of having this constant riff. Da da da da da. So it's just. It just depends on where your starting point is. But having it, you know, recording art is really easy. Remember, as easy it is, and accessible is for a producer to have all the tools, you know, present. Right now, with the world we live in, the world's a smaller place because of social media. You can find a guitarist in three minutes.
Do you know what I mean? In, like, your local vicinity. Is that easy? It's put out a DM. Anyone available right now? Da da da da da. It's very accessible.
It's a good thing. I mean, whether you find the right talent is a different thing.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah, we'll move on. Just, just quick question.
Is it possible just to just walk us through your creative process when producing a track?
Obviously, you don't need to go in depth, like, but just.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: There's different routes. I just had a similar conversation with a client of mine earlier today.
You. There's different processes. You may get a singer that walks in who already has his lyrics and he has an idea, has a melody in his head. Okay, that's great. Do you have a reference? Or we work with their reference and. Or just make a beat or find a sample and I need a starting point, Roger. Always need a starting point. Whether it's in my head, I need to get it down or I hear something that I like and I build on that, or we have lyrics or we have a melody, map them down on a beat and then start building on that. See what works. Play a couple of melodies. So my starting process is either drums or find a nice sample that I can work with that will lead to the rest of the song that I can build on. Or I play something until I find a melody that I like or we have a vocal and then I prefer to build my beat section first. I always prefer that because in my beat section I can kind of build the arrangement how I want it and then I can hear what I need in the song musically. If I've got an arrangement and is usually with my beat section first, I try to get that as fast as possible. I love hip hop, I love drill. I produce a lot of afro beat. So for me, ant bungalow, obviously. So I need my beat section, my rhythm section big. Right. If I got enough space for that, then I know what fits. Sometimes you can make a song so rich musically, your kit is not going to stand out. So as long as my kit, my, my kick, my snare, my hats and everything is space how I want it, is sounding big already, then I can just place my sounds where I want to place them. So usually, like, get my kick drum section as where I want it sounding how I want it sounding, arrange how I want it. And then I could pick the other elements and play the other elements to fit in with the vocals and that at the same time. So that's how I usually work the kick section. The drum section is my preferred method of starting music and vocals, sitting after.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: It's really interesting because, um, me as a singer and, and a lyricist, I always go with composition first and then base it around that. So, yeah, so what I would do, I'd work out a melody, work around the vaja or whatever, and just. And then bass. Find the chords for that melody and then do the beats after.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: But, yeah, they're different methods. So, say you were to come into my studio, and you've got a song in your head. Right. You've got a bass composition of the. I mean, okay. Once we establish what kind of beat you want, what kind of feel you want, drums will fit with that.
Then we map them out, and then you can either sing after that stage on top of the beat section. Right. Then we can find your melody there. Or what I like to do. Before I record any vocals I like to play, try to find the composition that works with the vocalist. Put it into the mix so you. So the singer gets a better vision of it and a better feeling before recording, rather than just recording on Katya beats or just a metronome, because you don't get that feeling. And the problem is, as well, is a singer always walks in with the melody in their head.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: I always find that they walk in with one intention and they leave with a different product. Right. Always happens because I like to keep an open mind from the beginning. So, instead of committing straight away to a composition, right. A singer has then the producers restricted, and I don't like feeling restricted, and I don't want the singer feeling restricted. Like, this is the only way this song can be sung. There may be a better way. Right. Or that way is the right way. But you only got to know once you map it out. So, collectively, once the beat section is kind of, like, you know, 25%, 30% there, you've got a rhythm to work with. Then you can play around with the composition. Right. Okay, let's do this. Let's try this. Okay. This sounds better. Let's do it this way. Okay. Let's maybe take a couple of things of splice or whatever. Play some chords using, you know, omnisphere, whatever it is, put it all in, and then we start that process.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: Did you have to learn, like, you know, like, in terms of composition and melodies? Did you have to learn about the indian scales, or did you familiarize yourself with them or just pick?
[00:28:14] Speaker B: No one's taught me anything.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: That's amazing.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Honestly, no one's ever told me, and I'm glad they didn't, because then sometimes. And not. Not all the time, but if. If I was taught by, I don't know, Xyz teacher, I'm gonna have that mindset, vision. Mindset. When I. People do call me the melody maker, I make a lot of melodies all the time, right? People can walk in with an idea and then I can hear something else or something that may bit more, you know, depending on the mood of the song, may fit it better. But I've done, like, I've sat in a Shetan girl's house with the vaja and he's given me a song, he goes, boopsman, a melody, right? And I can just make one on the spot. Same with Lembard. Lembert had one, I had another one. We went with mine.
I don't know, it's just, for me, it's just I like keeping an open mind. I listen to a lot of music, Raj. I don't listen to just punjabi music. I usually listen to a lot more other stuff than punjabi music, right? I love Punjabi music and I love it now even more. There's a lot more hip hop and everything, my kind of thing, but I still listen to other stuff and I prefer it. And I guess having that broad awareness of music just gives you that knowledge of just trying something different.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: All right, just a bit about your sound because I've noticed when you, when you first came on the scene and times were different as well, then it was very like UK bhangra sound. You, you were basically the, the, almost like the flagship sound. You had it at that time. How's your sound evolved over the years? And what do you feel the most significant turning point of your career is, is in that. In that sense, I think.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: I think when I emerged into the scene, it was, um, because I did a lot of work for a lot of singers prior to me being solo punjabi scene, it was very UK, Bangladesh. And I came into that scene and that was what was working.
I needed a full time job. So I'm like, okay, I need to. I enjoy panga music, I enjoy UK pangara music, I enjoy hip hop, I enjoy everything else. Hence my albums were very broad. They weren't just Bangladesh, they've never just been right. Because I enjoyed making a lot of music and I enjoyed bhangra as well. So it was obviously UK was in the forefront of punjabi music then. So I think I just came in at the right time as well for me to showcase what I did and how I did it and just the kind of sound I wanted to bring out there, which I did. And there was, you know, a lot of people had their versions on my sound afterwards, which is a great thing. You know, I've never been that kind of guy to say, you copy me. I don't really care, to be honest. Like, you carry on it makes you happy because I'm doing other stuff anyway. I can continue with that sound and I can evolve my sound. I think lately, with the shift of music mainly being focused from North America, you know, that's the focal point, North America and India right now. You know, the UK kind of, you know, missed the boat or they didn't involve or they got stuck in their way.
I can see a shift happening now, right, where, you know, even a lot of music I'm producing now, all my clients, now, my artists, now we're in that current sound of punjabi music, right? But I think that ended in 26, 2020, 1728, you know, that started changing where the UK sound was just stagnant. It was the same.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: Why do you think that was?
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Well, you got amazing art. It's like musial other came. You know, he came out with G Wagon, which is his first one up. Second I heard that song, raj, I knew he was going to be the biggest thing. I remember saying this to him, you probably know Manish, the cool player.
I'm going to say to him, I said, I've never. I've not heard this before. And, you know, you can see where this singer is going to take it. And I remember saying to him, the first time I heard g Wagon was produced by Deep Jandu, I said, this guy's gonna be huge. Then came Sohai and then the rest is history music.
Then it became from what was happening in North America and I believe our border systems to blame because I explained why.
So name me a singer born and bred in North America. Right? That has made it huge.
They haven't.
[00:32:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:59] Speaker B: They're all from India.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: And the opportunity in the UK ended. Right? So they all went to North America.
[00:33:08] Speaker A: Hmm.
[00:33:09] Speaker B: If Siddhul came to me or your true school or your zeus or whatever. And do you know what I mean? Around here, in this country, if the opportunity was here, we would continue our music journey and the UK still be in its forefront, right? But everyone chose to go to Toronto, Vancouver, North America.
And that's exactly what happened. The shift of music happened with the talent going with the different continents. Do you know what I mean?
[00:33:41] Speaker A: What about, like, you know, because at one point we had. It wasn't just the singers and production. The UK band scene was immense and we. I don't think we'll ever get those days back, you know, when we had.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: The UK, they were brilliant. Live music was just amazing then. I mean, we were like Dilig with Gudden's concerts, they're bringing live music. Do you know what I mean? But that's. And the good thing is it's on a. It's on a massive scale. And that is what we dreamt of as a brown skin, you know, musician and music listener. And just generally seeing them guys do that on stage with a live band is brilliant. So everything works in full circles, man. Every, you know, it just. Everyone has their, you know, every country or whatever, every scene, every market has their period, you know, has their ceiling point at some point, people get under people, it will always shift and it's always a full circle. There will be, you know, we're working hard now and a lot of producers in the UK, myself, mani Sandhu, et cetera, we're working super hard bringing out the sound. That is what punjabi music is now. And it's only a matter of time, man. So, you know, have some faith in the UK, but the live scene's got a bit more work to do.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: But I think what is helping the live scene is having, you know, the. The mega stars like Karan Diljit doing that on a big scale at concerts with live music, they can easily go with a backing track and carry on and dance. Yeah, they choose to do live bands and I think that is a great catalyst. And eventually you'll be full circle and the live scene will be up again.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Do you reckon there's enough, uh, young people learning instruments for the live scene in the UK?
[00:35:31] Speaker B: I think so. I think so. I just think, like I said, that I think the UK needs a catalyst, and the catalyst will be artists that. The young artists that are emerging from the UK now any time to get to a level where they are performing life.
Do you know what I mean? And when that's in demand, who do we have right now? The same legends bands. Nothing against them. They're all friends of mine and legends bands and, you know, just the same ones that we always see. Right?
Or they do. All the bands here do work for singers that come from abroad, and that's what it is. The singers need to be present.
The live scene will have a lot more work if the singers are getting the work right. And the singers from here need to be on that scale. So the new singers that are emerging now, the young talent, they need time to build their content, to get more popular, to be life.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: What I find with the single, what I find with the singers here. Whoops. I mean, I was telling you about, you know, when. When I came to your studio, it's a lot of that be and this and in this day and age, you've got shortcuts because the way you can manipulate your voice. So the live singing is not really there. Like last year we did about twelve milli around the country and it was the same. The artists basically were just miming over the tracks. Yeah. And really the, the.
Some. These are some massive artists and what, I mean, massive. They're like, you know, hundred thousands, you know, little listeners a month and whatever. But the live singing wasn't actually there.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I can see that. I mean, one unfortunate reality is when, if you hear a singer perform live to what they recorded is going to be different. Firstly, the environment. Secondly, the key they're singing.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: Now, when a singer is performing live, if they're a high pitched singer on your f and your f sharps, that's a lot of strain on the voice, especially for a two hour and a half hour performance.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: You can't do that.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: You can't sustain that, right? So they would lower their pitch by two semitones for their vocal cord to be sustainable.
So that's why there never sounds the same life than it does recorded musically as well, but just their voice in general.
So for 20 minutes performance out of Miller, for example, right. How costly would it be to have a whole band, right? Or is it easier just playing and being more affordable playing it, playing a cd in the back and having to sing over that? Because performing, performing live, moving live, singing that high, that's a lot of strain on your voice physically. Do you know what I mean? So how do you sustain that? So, I mean, the easiest thing will be to sing in the key that you can perform in life, right? But sometimes it doesn't sound better like your dalget mattoos, for example.
That's from the past, hence I chose that name. I'm saying if he, you know, he sings ridiculously high, but you can't do that live, especially if you're moving, right? So you have to mind because that's what your customers want to hear.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: Bam. Tis I come to the Miller and hear something which is two semitones down. Sounds nothing like it, you know, you're not gonna have that same emphasis.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: Energy is not gonna be there.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: Energy is not gonna be there for a short performance. Can't say after mine, you know what I mean?
[00:39:15] Speaker A: Even then, like, Kinohana did that on what, as I was saying to you, like, when I do vocals now, man, we practice two, three weeks every single day to try and make sure when you do hit the recording session, you. The. The need for audio minimum. Yeah, yeah, it's minimum. But the. But I've seen people on TikTok, they record it, put some mad effects on it and the songs gone viral.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: It's crazy. But the thing is that this comes down to, look, I did a song called black magic. Yeah, 2000.
When did I do that? 1860. That blew up. Right. I was thinking it auto tuned as crazy. Right. But it was. It was deliberately done. So there's two ways of looking and you can choose. There's so many artists that sound terrible without auto tune.
[00:40:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:08] Speaker B: Because it adds to the characteristic of their vocal. Yeah.
But if you are the artist that does not want to showcase that and your voice doesn't sound good with auto tune, then you want to get your recording. Right.
But see, auto tune can be used in a clever way, can be used to bring, to kind of tame you in, but not push that sound, not push that effect that is prominent in your vocal. So it can be used as a tool of reining your. Your anarchy peaks in. Right. Or it could be used cleverly, artistically to enhance your vocal.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: Gotcha.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Yeah. For me, 100%. If I'm doing a vocal, I've got a song which hit 30 million views with Milangaba for through T Series, which I released in 2018. For long Watcher.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Just another rendition of it and I'm singing the main chorus. No one knows with me. But the thing is, that was. And I use minimum auto tune. But the auto tune I did use was to rain my peaks in because I'm not trained singer. No, I just know how to direct a singer. Right. So I'll try it here and there.
But yeah, there's different ways of using autotune. If you use it to rein it in, that's fine. If you use it just to. For an artistic purpose. Nothing wrong with that.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: No, that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. So anyway, onwards Punjabi. How do you strike a balance? Because Punjabi means we've got so much culture and tradition from Punjab. How do you balance that while pushing boundaries and innovating?
Like Siddhumu say, for example, how do you do that?
[00:42:01] Speaker B: I think, firstly, is your content, lyrical content? It's got to be. It's. It's. If you are making hip hop or drill or whatever, because everyone's doing it now, you know, I'm. You're making afro. Your music's your music. I think keeping it authentic and keeping it balanced and keeping it still in tune with where you're from, um, your lyrical content has to be there. Right. I don't like working with artists. I choose. I mean, if I'm releasing material where, you know, and, like, they're lyrical or they're not rich enough, do you know what I mean? Lyrically, I go back and forth on a song all the time. Do you know, if it's a purpose made song and it has to be simple, that's fine. But if it's a song that's gonna have a lot of hidden messages in the Punjabi has to be. Right. The writing has to be good, right? And he has to, you know, because it's good, then it be. Then it'd be relatable to somebody listening to in India.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: Music works in Punjab, right? If I release any type of song, punjab, and he's gonna. And Toronto, etc. They're gonna like it. I see on my insights, I see that on my Spotify, where my listeners are coming from, because I know if I'm gonna drop a song lyrically, composition wise, is gonna be there and it's gonna be in tune with something. If I'm focusing on a particular gull that's relevant to something in Punjab, right, it's gonna hit, but lyrically, it has to be there. So finding that fine balance musically, I don't think that's a problem. Now, you can pretty much drop anything musically. It can be any genre. It doesn't matter. I think your vocals have to be tight. Your lyrical content has to be great. And I think composition wise, that's where you can either hit or miss. But that's just trial and error with everyone. I think lyrically is very important, and delivery of those lyrics is important.
[00:44:01] Speaker A: No, I agree with you. Because music changed so much. There's space for everything now.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: So is. I mean, look at one of the biggest songs. This year's Nana by Diljita Bacha. Yeah. It was afro chill song, right? It wasn't. It wasn't a. It's just. It's just chilling musically. It's not an item number for a Bollywood movie.
It's not your fair viggolse or your London big bollywoody.
None of that crap. It was just a chilled out track.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: Hi, guys. This is Raj Kul. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. If you want to support the rest of my music, if you could go and check me out and support Spotify on Apple Music and add my songs to your playlists if you like them.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: Thank you.
And it was just chilled vibe. You can drive. You can sing along to it. You know, you're on your iPad, you're just relaxing. But it was just lyrically, it was exactly what the song needed. But composition wise, it just hit. Do you know me? Because I'm saying, musically, anything goes now, right? I think your lyrical content has to be right and any composition naturally will flow. And I think that's all you really need to concentrate on in this thing. Like, you see a lot of music that comes on, they've just got a sample from online, put a hip hop beat on top of it, whether that's another sample, and then they're just singing anything.
Right. Which is fine, but you can tell your trained artist or an artist that, you know, he has thought about it a bit more than rather those 99% of the stuff that comes out now, which is just the same stuff. Right? Really, everything. A lot of the stuff that's coming out now, it can just be one long song.
Yeah.
[00:46:12] Speaker A: So again, do you think. Do you think, like, the stuff that's coming out North America, do you think they've become stagnant?
[00:46:18] Speaker B: I don't think they come stagnant. I just think that they're following the herd, which is good. I mean, like, if you got Shogu smashing it, you got Karen, you got, you know, the jeeps, obviously, here and there, whatever he's from, you know, you got your. You got your. You got your big names, right? So they're going to set precedence. Right.
It's the same thing that the UK did. Raj, if this is working now. Yeah. You know, if this is the sound, if this is what's working, if this is the lyrical content, you know, we're going to work on two chords, like the whole song, and just change the melody. Keep the same energy for the chorus, keep the same energy for the verses, because it works.
So would they become. I don't think they've become stagnant. I think they've just become repetitive. Hmm.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: It's really interesting because I mentioned the band scene before. The band scene wasn't like that.
The production scene was, like in the UK, but the band scene, every band had their own sound. Like, soldiers had their own sound. DC's had their own sound. A lot had their own sound, you know, and that's why I missed, like, me personally, because I'm from that. I'm from the era.
[00:47:23] Speaker B: I don't think that's a band issue. I don't ever think it was a band issue. The bands evolved. They, you know, got better. Their talent was better. They, you know, they. There was a lot more love for it. They have bigger shows. It's just the singers went here.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah, gotcha.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: And I'm telling you, it's the singers. If, like, the singers come in here now, I mean, like, you know, there's a lot of them. Like Jordan originally, he's from Amritsar. You wouldn't. You wouldn't know, right. He came here when he was eight years old or nine years old. So he's been here since the kid. And you got a lot of that talent. Yeah. That's coming through now.
[00:48:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: The bands only got stagnant because the singers weren't available and it was the same singers all the time who got old.
[00:48:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: So it's just a case of the new generation that have. That are emerging. They're going to get bigger and the band scene will come in. So, you know, everything works in a.
[00:48:20] Speaker A: Full circle and they're still performing those old generation, aren't they?
[00:48:25] Speaker B: Exactly. Because, like, I mean, we've got Ralph Sopera now and we've got, you know, JK's been doing his thing for the last decade. Do you know what I mean? He's brilliant life.
But we need, you know, more emerging singers, you know, which we will.
[00:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: And it's just. It's just time. It's just time. Just having patience.
[00:48:45] Speaker A: So you. You worked with quite, quite a variety of artists, especially back in the day, like, and even now with Jordan and stuff, what do you think makes a successful collaboration and.
And how do you bring out the best of artists that work with you?
[00:48:59] Speaker B: I think that's a lot with, like, for me and Jordan, for example, I mean, I'm working with him a lot now.
That was just a natural process. Absolutely natural process. Where I'm a. I love hip hop. I do a lot of hip hop. I do a lot of drill, I do a lot after, I do a lot of reggaeton. I love my urban stuff. Even my Punjabi Pangara music now is in Pangara. Pangara. Apart from album, I've got one full on Pangara song, just.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: Oh, wait, brilliant song.
[00:49:30] Speaker B: And it was very fun to produce up because that felt different for me this time around.
But I think mine and his process, you have to think the same, but you don't have to think the same as in, you got to be on the same page eventually and he can bring something to the table where I can contribute to it and if I find that he's wrong in something, like he can take it. Right. And so. And if the other way around, if he proves me wrong in something, I can take it. And I think that's a mutual understanding for a collaborative collaboration is important. Me and him have worked on so much material. When he came in three months, we banged out about 20 songs. Knowing that two months we banged out 20 songs. Right. Because it was. It was just a natural process. I think when your chemistry is very fluent, right, you're only going to get better. I'll give an example. Like, two days ago, Jordan came. I haven't seen him in like a month because I've been gigging. He's been busy building his studio as well, so, like, there's a lot going on. And then we made.
In two days, we made two tracks, right? Permitted, done, ready. Do you know what I mean? Because we know how each other work, we know how each other think, where there's. When he's performed something where he knows he can make it better without me even saying, he'd be like, yeah, just delete. Because I know what you're going to say, right? Do you know what I mean? It's become that natural, fluent process and I think that's the key for a good collaboration.
[00:51:03] Speaker A: Amazing. Amazing. So what, we almost finished, by the way, the conversations have flowed.
Been great chatting to you.
It's really insightful. What are some of the biggest challenges you faced in the. In the. In the music industry, particularly as a producer?
[00:51:22] Speaker B: I think the biggest challenges I faced in the music industry was it's just the clients themselves, to be honest.
Like, when I saw the shift, I was very busy when the UK was.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: On top clients, as in, from a.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: DJ or a producer producer perspective, but I mean, the DJ's. And I come to that as well. But then when a lot of the shifts started happening where, you know, a lot of singers weren't available in the UK or, you know, because they didn't feel the need to, you know, there wasn't anyone. There wasn't much work. Right.
And it's. It's always difficult picking up the phone. It's not difficult. I mean, I can phone somebody right now in Punjab, big name or Canada, we can have a conversation. The body, you know, we're waiting for those vocals. Da da da da. It'll be several months before anything or nothing at all, right? And that's the challenges that we face as producers, that we find that it's difficult trying to get A listers or whatever to work with you or, you know, because they just.
They're good to you when they're talking to you, but then when it comes to the work, they just delay or they don't want to do it and they can't tell you either way, so I think that's the most difficult thing. And waiting. So say you are working with an artist, waiting, like me, having singers at my disposal here, or anyone in the UK. Say we have the a list is here. They can come into my studio record and they can be done with, right. Gone where you have to wait for them to send you the materials and think the waiting game is a big problem as a producer now living in the UK, right. For me, anyway. Do you know what I mean? I do get a lot of work. I've got a lot of big client work, which is brilliant. But he's still waiting.
We're like, Jorban, I'll say, Jorvan, what you doing? Come, I got an idea. Da da da. Slap it. Cheers. Let's go for a meal. Do you know what I mean? It's that simple. And I think that's why there's a lot more music coming out from North America now. Because the singers are there and the producers are there. Everyone can walk you through the dorm record.
That's the difference. We used to have that here, but then obviously the shift happened. As a dj, I think pre Covid, I can't remember having any days off.
It was insane. And I think after Covid as well, it just. Obviously people. And obviously with the financial crunch and everything now, I mean, I'm not a cheap dj because I'm a very good dj, big name, you know, we've got roadshows doing great, but then we do find you. There is a. There's a lot of.
There's a lot more doggy dog now than it used to be before.
And especially when people are watching their pennies, you know, it's. It's. It's become a lot more harder where you do get somebody who's literally half the price of me. Right. But you do. You get. You know, you get what you pay for, really. So I've kind of. And the only problem, and the problem is with an artist DJ myself, you can't even. You can't lower your prices too much either, because of what you've worked to achieve.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:54:31] Speaker B: Yeah, here you are in this industry. So it's a very fine line, but yeah, so those are the only challenges. And plus, you know, people want to try new things out. So, you know, there's a lot of changes, a lot more dj's. They're literally growing off trees now. Right. So that's in the wedding scene. I tend not to do a lot of club shows.
Two reasons. Firstly, I got to take the kids to school every morning.
Secondly, I think because there's a lot more nights and everything happening now, it's just, again, it's just, you know, the promoters, they're not as generous as they used to be, you understand. So.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: I think in the performance side of things, I think that's what we struggle with is the fact that where the budgets are now.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:17] Speaker B: Where if you're booking me for a wedding, you know, you're going to get a, you know, extravaganza, you get me hosting it. So, like, you know, that all comes and, you know, at a price where you can get somebody literally half the price and then you regret it later.
But it is just the way the world is, right? It's just. It's a bit more tougher than it used to be. But, you know, I've got my production, which I do a lot, I've got my other businesses, which are, you know, there's a lot going on. And that's another thing as well, is I think me and a couple of others that I know in this industry, we did the right thing by investing our money that we were making, because I made a lot of money right, by just putting them in the right places, buying properties and all that stuff. So, like, you know, but that's the same advice I would give to any emerging dj now and any producer. You make your money, brick some water, build your investment, because that wave doesn't last forever.
I know in the next few years, five years, I want to be gone. Do you know what I mean? I want to try something else. I've done this for what, two decades now?
[00:56:27] Speaker A: Don't say that. Yeah, I enjoy your music, bro.
[00:56:30] Speaker B: No, you can't. No, I mean, I'll still make music, I think, from the live scene.
Five years, I'm done. Because I want to focus a lot more music and my kids are growing up. Be nice spending time with them. But, yeah, so it's just, you know, everyone has that. I think Siddhul said in his interview, once he goes, you know, he's going to be here for about five years, or, you know, you have your peak for about five. Five to 610 years. I mean, I lasted a decade. I don't even know how that happened. Right. But, like, it's. And I'm still going, which is cool. But, yeah, it's. I think this. There comes a time where you got to.
I think, for me, I think I want to try other things in my life to see what else I'm good at, you know, I mean, I love music and I love food, so, you know, I might open up my own cooking. So I cook at home because I enjoy it.
I don't know. I'll see where my potential lies.
[00:57:31] Speaker A: Brilliant. We're coming to the end of the podcast. So the podcast is about, as I've said at the start, it's about the pursuit of musical excellence. And I asked most of my guests, if I remember, sometimes Bolton. So what does musical excellence mean to you, and how do you maintain that standard in your work?
[00:57:51] Speaker B: I think musical excellence for you to maintain and stay relevant is to have a broad awareness of music, acceptance of music. If you think that this, there's only one way of doing something and one way something should be produced, you're wrong. You need to accept there's different methods, there's different styles of music and this, you know, there's different people doing it differently. And he's got to be more aware and accepting of the. How music has evolved, how music has changed. There's new artists, and just accept all that knowledge with love and bring that into your, you know, and into your work place. You know, if you find something that, okay, they've done it differently, you shouldn't be doing like that. But hold a second. But the songs are hit, so maybe that's a good way of doing it. Do you know what I mean? So you got to be musically aware. You got to have a broad awareness and accepting that this better ways or other ways of doing things that may just be the right way, because music shifts, trends shift, and you got to learn to move with that for you to be relevant.
[00:59:06] Speaker A: That's amazing. So just about your future projects, you want to let the audience know of what's coming up.
[00:59:16] Speaker B: Okay. So from my solo album, I haven't got official title yet, so that's a twelve track album that's actually coming out of Moviebox. I've got my own ep to follow after that. So the first single from that is called that's with Afsana Khan. So that's dropping in the next few weeks. Now I'm a bit more available. We're going to get all the fine lines and everything drawn out and then that out. Jorvan, we've got. He's got a ep called Madame in the Oakland Merdam. So that's coming out. That's brilliant. And then after that, we've got another ep called major that's coming out. My album's dropping singles in between. There's a lot going on, Raj. Everyone's going to hear it, and the album is my culmination of my last music on music from the last decade that I've enjoyed making into one amazing piece of work and you're gonna enjoy is my favorite album of the lot.
[01:00:23] Speaker A: Can't wait. Absolutely can't wait. So where can the audience follow you on social media? If you want to just give you social media tags, website tags, anything like that?
[01:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just appsugue. So that's on your insta, Snapchat, TikTok and Facebook and Google me. YouTube books are Google, so I'm pretty much everywhere. You can't just type books. I should be at the top. If not, they can find me pretty much anywhere.
[01:00:51] Speaker A: Man, that's fantastic. Thank you so much, boops.
Honestly, honestly, it's been absolute privilege and really insightful. I've learned a lot from you. Just chatting to you as well. So, guys, that's boop. Sagu, if you could make sure you follow him in all his, all his socials and look out for his upcoming album and leave a review for the podcast. Just leave it on on YouTube. Leave any comments and share it please, if you can as well. So God bless you all. I'm signing this podcast out and hopefully see you in the.
